Purrs for Tigger, please?

Stormmee wrote:
> and eliminating the hunting culture is why we have deer slaughtered on the
> highways by my home every year and why we have them charging into shops and
> destroying property and themselves in a slow and painful way, Lee

The culture of hunting is alive and well in Central Texas. Yet, deer get
killed on the highways all the time and deer run amok come mating
season. Men are indeed responsible for out of control deer population,
but not because of not hunting the deer. We build homes and shops and
highways on *their* territories. We kill wolves and other predators that
normally would keep their populations in check.

--
Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here: uce.TakeThisOut@ftc.gov
Email me here: pistorLITTER.TakeThisOut@BOXaustin.rr.com
 >> Stay informed about: Purrs for Tigger, please? 

to some decree I agree with you but now that we as humans have screwed it up
there aren't many ways to fix it, Lee
Victor Martinez wrote in message

> Stormmee wrote:
> > and eliminating the hunting culture is why we have deer slaughtered on
the
> > highways by my home every year and why we have them charging into shops
and
> > destroying property and themselves in a slow and painful way, Lee
>
> The culture of hunting is alive and well in Central Texas. Yet, deer get
> killed on the highways all the time and deer run amok come mating
> season. Men are indeed responsible for out of control deer population,
> but not because of not hunting the deer. We build homes and shops and
> highways on *their* territories. We kill wolves and other predators that
> normally would keep their populations in check.
>
> --
> Victor M. Martinez
> Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
> Send your spam here: uce.TakeThisOut@ftc.gov
> Email me here: pistorLITTER.TakeThisOut@BOXaustin.rr.com
 >> Stay informed about: Purrs for Tigger, please? 

"Stormmee" wrote in message

> to some decree I agree with you but now that we as humans have screwed it
> up
> there aren't many ways to fix it, Lee

Maybe I'm just an optimist, but I think there are ways to fix things. I
can't see just throwing my hands up and bewailing fate. Maybe because I
have grandchildren who are nearing the age of having their own children, but
I'd like to see this bright blue marble we call home become healthy and a
good place to live again. That's why I stay active when it comes to
protests and writing to our congress critters to get bad laws changed. If
nobody even tries to change things then we *are* all doomed and I just can't
accept that, because the future is too dear to me on a very personal level.

Hugs,

CatNipped


> Victor Martinez wrote in message
>
>> Stormmee wrote:
>> > and eliminating the hunting culture is why we have deer slaughtered on
> the
>> > highways by my home every year and why we have them charging into shops
> and
>> > destroying property and themselves in a slow and painful way, Lee
>>
>> The culture of hunting is alive and well in Central Texas. Yet, deer get
>> killed on the highways all the time and deer run amok come mating
>> season. Men are indeed responsible for out of control deer population,
>> but not because of not hunting the deer. We build homes and shops and
>> highways on *their* territories. We kill wolves and other predators that
>> normally would keep their populations in check.
>>
>> --
>> Victor M. Martinez
>> Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
>> Send your spam here: uce RemoveThis @ftc.gov
>> Email me here: pistorLITTER RemoveThis @BOXaustin.rr.com
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Purrs for Tigger, please? 

> it appears that fox hunting is *still* legal in the UK. So the
> country you're praising for being so much more civilized than
> the US still allows packs of hounds to chase down for hours and
> then tear apart foxes.

It's been banned in Scotland for a few years now. There is no such
thing as "UK" law - Scots and English/Welsh law have never been the
same, and on issues like this they're increasingly diverging since
the Scottish Parliament took responsibility for such matters north
of the border.


> http://www.mfha.org.uk/

Given what that acronym stands for, I'm going to give the site a
swerve just as I would a Texas snake-torturing site. It hadn't
occurred to me that those ghouls would even know how to use the web.
For sure *something* got banned in England a couple of years ago
or that lot wouldn't have been staging demos about it.

The problem both sides of the pond is more to do with the culture
than the law. (Americans have an unfortunate tendency to assume
that if a country has banned something it doesn't happen and if
it's legal everybody must be doing it). The nastiest kinds of
animal cruelty in the UK are livestock rearing (no worse than the
rest of the world but no better either), hare coursing (which has
been illegal for years) and game shooting (most shot birds get
away and die slowly; most shooting estates poison any wildlife
that might predate on their game, and get away with it). No change
in the law is going to make much direct difference to those. The
shooting estates are really beyond the law and the only reasonable
solution would be land confiscation to shut the whole business
down. Eliminating the US hunting culture would be even harder.

I reckon the country with the greatest per-capita violence against
the animal kingdom is Malta. That place is just plain sick.

============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
 >> Stay informed about: Purrs for Tigger, please? 

"Jack Campin - bogus address" wrote in message

>> it appears that fox hunting is *still* legal in the UK. So the
>> country you're praising for being so much more civilized than
>> the US still allows packs of hounds to chase down for hours and
>> then tear apart foxes.
>
> It's been banned in Scotland for a few years now. There is no such
> thing as "UK" law - Scots and English/Welsh law have never been the
> same, and on issues like this they're increasingly diverging since
> the Scottish Parliament took responsibility for such matters north
> of the border.
>
>
>> http://www.mfha.org.uk/
>
> Given what that acronym stands for, I'm going to give the site a
> swerve just as I would a Texas snake-torturing site. It hadn't
> occurred to me that those ghouls would even know how to use the web.
> For sure *something* got banned in England a couple of years ago
> or that lot wouldn't have been staging demos about it.
>
> The problem both sides of the pond is more to do with the culture
> than the law. (Americans have an unfortunate tendency to assume
> that if a country has banned something it doesn't happen and if
> it's legal everybody must be doing it). The nastiest kinds of
> animal cruelty in the UK are livestock rearing (no worse than the
> rest of the world but no better either), hare coursing (which has
> been illegal for years) and game shooting (most shot birds get
> away and die slowly; most shooting estates poison any wildlife
> that might predate on their game, and get away with it). No change
> in the law is going to make much direct difference to those. The
> shooting estates are really beyond the law and the only reasonable
> solution would be land confiscation to shut the whole business
> down. Eliminating the US hunting culture would be even harder.
>
> I reckon the country with the greatest per-capita violence against
> the animal kingdom is Malta. That place is just plain sick.

Thank you for a more balanced and knowledgeable response than mine. Again,
I apologize for my knee-jerk reaction and any misinformation I posted.

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> ============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk
> ==============
> Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660
> 4760
> <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554
> 975
> stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739
> 557
 >> Stay informed about: Purrs for Tigger, please? 

and eliminating the hunting culture is why we have deer slaughtered on the
highways by my home every year and why we have them charging into shops and
destroying property and themselves in a slow and painful way, Lee
Jack Campin - bogus address wrote in message

> > it appears that fox hunting is *still* legal in the UK. So the
> > country you're praising for being so much more civilized than
> > the US still allows packs of hounds to chase down for hours and
> > then tear apart foxes.
>
> It's been banned in Scotland for a few years now. There is no such
> thing as "UK" law - Scots and English/Welsh law have never been the
> same, and on issues like this they're increasingly diverging since
> the Scottish Parliament took responsibility for such matters north
> of the border.
>
>
> > http://www.mfha.org.uk/
>
> Given what that acronym stands for, I'm going to give the site a
> swerve just as I would a Texas snake-torturing site. It hadn't
> occurred to me that those ghouls would even know how to use the web.
> For sure *something* got banned in England a couple of years ago
> or that lot wouldn't have been staging demos about it.
>
> The problem both sides of the pond is more to do with the culture
> than the law. (Americans have an unfortunate tendency to assume
> that if a country has banned something it doesn't happen and if
> it's legal everybody must be doing it). The nastiest kinds of
> animal cruelty in the UK are livestock rearing (no worse than the
> rest of the world but no better either), hare coursing (which has
> been illegal for years) and game shooting (most shot birds get
> away and die slowly; most shooting estates poison any wildlife
> that might predate on their game, and get away with it). No change
> in the law is going to make much direct difference to those. The
> shooting estates are really beyond the law and the only reasonable
> solution would be land confiscation to shut the whole business
> down. Eliminating the US hunting culture would be even harder.
>
> I reckon the country with the greatest per-capita violence against
> the animal kingdom is Malta. That place is just plain sick.
>
> ============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk
==============
> Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660
4760
> <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554
975
> stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739
557
 >> Stay informed about: Purrs for Tigger, please? 

"Stormmee" wrote in message

> and eliminating the hunting culture is why we have deer slaughtered on the
> highways by my home every year and why we have them charging into shops
> and
> destroying property and themselves in a slow and painful way, Lee

I have no problem with hunting and killing for food - it's the torturing I
object to.

Hugs,

CatNipped

> Jack Campin - bogus address wrote in message
>
>> > it appears that fox hunting is *still* legal in the UK. So the
>> > country you're praising for being so much more civilized than
>> > the US still allows packs of hounds to chase down for hours and
>> > then tear apart foxes.
>>
>> It's been banned in Scotland for a few years now. There is no such
>> thing as "UK" law - Scots and English/Welsh law have never been the
>> same, and on issues like this they're increasingly diverging since
>> the Scottish Parliament took responsibility for such matters north
>> of the border.
>>
>>
>> > http://www.mfha.org.uk/
>>
>> Given what that acronym stands for, I'm going to give the site a
>> swerve just as I would a Texas snake-torturing site. It hadn't
>> occurred to me that those ghouls would even know how to use the web.
>> For sure *something* got banned in England a couple of years ago
>> or that lot wouldn't have been staging demos about it.
>>
>> The problem both sides of the pond is more to do with the culture
>> than the law. (Americans have an unfortunate tendency to assume
>> that if a country has banned something it doesn't happen and if
>> it's legal everybody must be doing it). The nastiest kinds of
>> animal cruelty in the UK are livestock rearing (no worse than the
>> rest of the world but no better either), hare coursing (which has
>> been illegal for years) and game shooting (most shot birds get
>> away and die slowly; most shooting estates poison any wildlife
>> that might predate on their game, and get away with it). No change
>> in the law is going to make much direct difference to those. The
>> shooting estates are really beyond the law and the only reasonable
>> solution would be land confiscation to shut the whole business
>> down. Eliminating the US hunting culture would be even harder.
>>
>> I reckon the country with the greatest per-capita violence against
>> the animal kingdom is Malta. That place is just plain sick.
>>
>> ============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk
> ==============
>> Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660
> 4760
>> <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870
>> 0554
> 975
>> stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800
>> 739
> 557
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Purrs for Tigger, please? 

CatNipped wrote:

> "Stormmee" wrote in message


>> and eliminating the hunting culture is why we have deer slaughtered on the
>> highways by my home every year and why we have them charging into shops
>> and destroying property and themselves in a slow and painful way, Lee

> I have no problem with hunting and killing for food - it's the torturing I
> object to.

I might be wrong about this, but it sounds like Lee was saying that by
eliminating deer hunting, people have allowed the deer to proliferate to
the point where they're all over the place - on highways, shops, etc.,
and then dying in slower and more painful ways.

In other words, in this case, it might be kinder to hunt them? Is that
what you meant, Lee?

Even if you didn't mean that, I do think it's true that when there's not
enough selection pressure on a species, so that they overpopulate an area,
their lives can become a lot more miserable (due to starvation and other
problems) than it would be with reasonable management, either by natural
predators, or controlled hunting.

Joyce
 >> Stay informed about: Purrs for Tigger, please? 

> Even if you didn't mean that, I do think it's true that when there's not
> enough selection pressure on a species, so that they overpopulate an area,
> their lives can become a lot more miserable (due to starvation and other
> problems) than it would be with reasonable management, either by natural
> predators, or controlled hunting.
>
> Joyce

I would have to agree with that.

In a lot of areas in the US coyotes are thriving. So much so that they are
putting way more pressure than normal on local prey populations (that is,
they're eating all the rabbits and squirrels and stray dogs and cats) and
large parts of the population are underfed. This makes them more prone to
opportunistic infestations like mange. So if someone asked me if it was
more humane for hunters to stalk them and kill them quickly, or leave
them alone and allow them to starve to death, possibly in the agony
brought on by mange, I'd say bring on the hunters.

In other areas it's deer. Or rabbits. Or squirrels. Any wild animal can be
subject to localized overpopulation that can lead to horrible, slow,
painful death to members of that species. Not to mention severe
depredation of creatures lower on the food chain.
 >> Stay informed about: Purrs for Tigger, please? 

wrote in message

> CatNipped wrote:
>
> > "Stormmee" wrote in message
>
>
> >> and eliminating the hunting culture is why we have deer slaughtered on
> >> the
> >> highways by my home every year and why we have them charging into shops
> >> and destroying property and themselves in a slow and painful way, Lee
>
> > I have no problem with hunting and killing for food - it's the torturing
> > I
> > object to.
>
> I might be wrong about this, but it sounds like Lee was saying that by
> eliminating deer hunting, people have allowed the deer to proliferate to
> the point where they're all over the place - on highways, shops, etc.,
> and then dying in slower and more painful ways.
>
> In other words, in this case, it might be kinder to hunt them? Is that
> what you meant, Lee?
>
> Even if you didn't mean that, I do think it's true that when there's not
> enough selection pressure on a species, so that they overpopulate an area,
> their lives can become a lot more miserable (due to starvation and other
> problems) than it would be with reasonable management, either by natural
> predators, or controlled hunting.

Yes, that's how I took it too. And I don't have any problems with people
hunting - my son-in-laws provides about 1/3 his family's meat supply with
venison and pork (form wild boar). And you're right, when a species is
allowed to proliferate to the point of over-population and starvation they
suffer a much worse fate than a swift kill.

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> Joyce
 >> Stay informed about: Purrs for Tigger, please? 

it is exactly what I meant, one of the deer that busted into a store, in
Springfield IL, our state capitol, bled to death because it was inside the
building and it took a bit to get the humans out so it could be shot, and it
was horrid because it had glass sticking out of it and for some reason it
had missed arteries, it took about 45 minutes of this thing thrashing around
and suffering before they could kill it, also on the exit to our house, it
is not uncommon to see 2 or more a day for a month, and we do have deer
season here just not enough to keep them under control, Lee
wrote in message

> CatNipped wrote:
>
> > "Stormmee" wrote in message
>
>
> >> and eliminating the hunting culture is why we have deer slaughtered on
the
> >> highways by my home every year and why we have them charging into
shops
> >> and destroying property and themselves in a slow and painful way, Lee
>
> > I have no problem with hunting and killing for food - it's the
torturing I
> > object to.
>
> I might be wrong about this, but it sounds like Lee was saying that by
> eliminating deer hunting, people have allowed the deer to proliferate to
> the point where they're all over the place - on highways, shops, etc.,
> and then dying in slower and more painful ways.
>
> In other words, in this case, it might be kinder to hunt them? Is that
> what you meant, Lee?
>
> Even if you didn't mean that, I do think it's true that when there's not
> enough selection pressure on a species, so that they overpopulate an area,
> their lives can become a lot more miserable (due to starvation and other
> problems) than it would be with reasonable management, either by natural
> predators, or controlled hunting.
>
> Joyce
 >> Stay informed about: Purrs for Tigger, please? 

Jack Campin - bogus address wrote:
<snip>
> I reckon the country with the greatest per-capita violence against
> the animal kingdom is Malta. That place is just plain sick.

Yes, it really saddens me the numbers of songbirds killed there during
migration. :-(
--
Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera)
Cats leave pawprints on your heart
http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk
 >> Stay informed about: Purrs for Tigger, please? 

Awww. Shucks. :-)

Stormmee wrote:
> Adrian I think I have a crush on you, Lee


--
Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera)
Cats leave pawprints on your heart
http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk
 >> Stay informed about: Purrs for Tigger, please?